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Ah, i missed the death and marriage you posted.
That explains it then. :-)
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Morning
Reggie - I believe the Hester Withy found in 1911 is the correct person. Thanks.
Sidney O'Connell Cormack did die in 1942 (bath bltiz) and my father says our ancestors on his father's are from Ireland. Although my paternal great grandfather (Daniel Cormack) was born in India.
I don't know when Lily Chivers died but she died in Bath - I'm sure I can get a rough date from my father though. I will look into obtaining a copy of her birth certificate so I can a) get her dob and b) obtain info on her mother.
The marriage MarieCeleste found is definitely the correct one and he married Lily Chivers - thanks again!
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Hi Clare
Do let us know when you have Lily's birth cert.
The best place to order certificates is online here........
www.gro.gov.uk/
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Baptism
County Somerset
Place Peasedown St John
Church St John
RegisterNumber 381
DateOfBirth
BaptismDate 01 Apr 1889
Forename Lily
Sex F
FatherForename
MotherForename Hester
FatherSurname
MotherSurname CHIVERS
Abode New Town
(saw above if fitting anywhere!)
County Somerset
Place Paulton
Church Holy Trinity
RegisterNumber 393
MarriageDate 15 Jan 1885
GroomForename Arthur Henry
GroomSurname EVANS
GroomAge
GroomParish
GroomCondition Bachelor
GroomOccupation Mason
GroomAbode Cheddar
BrideForename Hester
BrideSurname CHIVERS
BrideAge
BrideParish
BrideCondition Spinster
BrideOccupation
BrideAbode Paulton
GroomFatherForename Jesse
GroomFatherSurname EVANS
GroomFatherOccupation Labourer
BrideFatherForename Benjamin
BrideFatherSurname CHIVERS
BrideFatherOccupation Coal Miner
WitnessOneForename Joseph
WitnessOneSurname CHIVERS
WitnessTwoForename Martha
WitnessTwoSurname CHIVERS
Notes Banns
County Somerset
Place Camerton
Church St Peter
RegisterNumber 167
MarriageDate 07 Aug 1852
GroomForename George
GroomSurname CHIVERS
GroomAge
GroomParish
GroomCondition Bachelor
GroomOccupation Coalminer
GroomAbode Camerton
BrideForename Caroline
BrideSurname MAGGS
BrideAge
BrideParish
BrideCondition Spinster
BrideOccupation
BrideAbode Camerton
GroomFatherForename Thomas
GroomFatherSurname CHIVERS
GroomFatherOccupation Coalminer
BrideFatherForename George
BrideFatherSurname MAGGS
BrideFatherOccupation Coalminer
WitnessOneForename Mary
WitnessOneSurname PARSONS
WitnessTwoForename George
WitnessTwoSurname PARSONS
Chris :)
http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl
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Thank you all so much for all your help - I know much more about parts of my famiy than I did last week!
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??
Deaths Dec 1962 (>99%)
CORMACK Lily 80 Bath 7c 61
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Thinking about it.........and feel free to correct me if i am wrong.........but.......
You can't purchase a copy of Lily Chivers birth cert because you have no idea of where and when she was born.
I mean your Lily can't be the Daughter of the above Hester Chivers can she?
Because that Hester Chivers went on to marry Evans.
I would be inclined to purchase a copy of Lily's wedding cert to find out how old she was when she married and hopefully for information regarding her Father.
What leads your Father to believe that Lily's mother was Hester Withy born around 1870?
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District News .
The Bristol Mercury and Daily Post (Bristol, England), Friday, May 14, 1886;
A young woman named Hester Chivers aged 21, left her situation at 14, Pulteney Street on Sunday last, and has not since been heard of. She was of medium height and size, had fair hair and complexion, and was dressed in a dark green dress and straw hat.
(saw above!)
Chris :)
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PricklyHolly
It looks from info above that Lily Chivers was born in 1883. Her mother Hester Withy or Chivers married Arthur Evans in 1885 so Lily was born out of wedlock perhaps or to a pervious husband. I will purchase a copy of Lily's wedding cert to see info on her father. It also looks from the info above that she married in 1907 at age 24.
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CORMACK, SIDNEY O'CONNELL
Rank:
Civilian
Date of Death:
26/04/1942
Age:
59
Regiment/Service:
Civilian War Dead
Reporting Authority
BATH, COUNTY BOROUGH
Additional Information:
Son of Clifford O'Connell Cormack, and Marie Violet Cormack, of 7 Combe Road, Combe Down; husband of Lily Cormack, of 1 Beechen Cliff Road. At 1 Beechen Cliff Road.
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Ok.........i'm just getting confused as to where the name Withy came from.
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I've been digging and there were THREE Hester Chivers born in Somerset of a similar age, as shown on the 1861 (apologies if I'm reposting what's already been posted):
CHIVERS, Benjamin Head Married M 33 1828 Coal Miner High Littleton, Somerset
CHIVERS, Sarah Wife Married F 29 1832 Paulton, Somerset
CHIVERS, Joseph Son Unmarried M 6 1855 Scholar Paulton, Somerset
CHIVERS, Hester Daughter Unmarried F 4 1857 Scholar Paulton, Somerset
CHIVERS, Jessy Son M 2 1859 Paulton, Somerset
CHIVERS, Sarah A Daughter Unmarried F 0 (4M) 1861 Paulton, Somerset
CHIVERS, Thomas Father In Law Married M 84 1777 Invalid High Littleton
CHIVERS, Sarah Mother In Law Married F 64 1797 Invalid Chewton Mendip
Piece: 1679 Folio: 178 Page: 36
Registration District: Clutton
Civil Parish: Paulton
Address: Radford, Paulton County: Somersetshire
.......................................................................................................................
CHIVERS, William Head Married M 32 1829 Coalminer Midsomer Norton, Somerset
CHIVERS, Mary Wife F 31 1830 Midsomer Norton, Somerset
CHIVERS, Solomon B Son M 8 1853 Scholar Midsomer Norton, Somerset
CHIVERS, John Son M 6 1855 Scholar Midsomer Norton, Somerset
CHIVERS, Isaac E Son M 4 1857 Scholar Midsomer Norton, Somerset
CHIVERS, Hester Daughter F 2 1859 Midsomer Norton, Somerset
CHIVERS, Caroline M Daughter F 0 (1M) 1861 Midsomer Norton, Somerset
Piece: 1680 Folio: 8 Page: 11
Registration District: Clutton
Civil Parish: Midsomer Norton
Address: 4, Clapton Tithing, Midsomer Norton County: Somersetshire
.........................................................................................................................
CHIVERS, George Head Married M 32 1829 Coal Miner Kilmersdon, Somerset
CHIVERS, Caroline Wife Married F 31 1830 Camerton, Somerset
CHIVERS Daughter F 7 1854 Camerton, Somerset
CHIVERS, William Son M 5 1856 Camerton, Somerset
CHIVERS, Elizabeth Ann Daughter F 3 1858 Camerton, Somerset
CHIVERS, Hester Daughter F 0 (3M) 1861 Camerton, Somerset
Piece: 1680 Folio: 109 Page: 12
Registration District: Clutton
Civil Parish: Camerton
Address: Carlingcot Road, Camerton County: Somersetshire
This last one is the family Reggie posted the 1871 for earlier in the thread. On the 1871 she has a sister Emily - I'll explain that later.
...................................................................................................................
(I've found all these three individually on the 1871 too)
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The Hester Chivers who married Arthur Henry Evans seems to have a consistent birth year of 1856/7 on census so I would say is the one born Paulton, daughter of Benjamin and Sarah.
Hester Withy on the 1911 has a birth year of 1859 and birthplace of Carlingcott. Because of the specific birthplace I'd say she's much more likely to be the daughter of George and Caroline.
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I mentioned earlier about a Hester having a sister Emily:
Publication:Bristol Mercury
Publication date:Wednesday 27 April 1887
Article text:"YESTERDAY - Hester Chivers, 25, domestic servant, of Tunley, was charged by warrant with deserting a female child, aged two months, by leaving it on the doorstep of No. 4, Bryne's terrace, on the 18th inst, Emily Wilcocks, of 1, Bryne's terrace, said the prisoner was her sister"
There's too much to transcribe the whole article but basically Hester had tried to get her sister to take the baby but she had refused. Later Emily found it on the doorstep (so it sounds like Emily lived no 1 and the baby was left at no 4).
Hester Chivers was charged with abandoning her illegitimate child and making it chargeable to the funds of the Bath Union, she was sentenced to 1 month in prison with hard labour.
When asked if she was guilty she said "I took it where the father was".
.....................................................................................................................
ADDED:
The illegitimate child can't have been Lily as she was born 1883 going by the 1911, BUT could Hester have had more than one child?
This article must surely be about the same Hester as Chris posted?
The snag is that this 1887 article intimates that Hester has a married sister Emily Wilcocks BUT the 1891 census shows Emily with her parents and single (although she's not with them in 1881)
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MarieCeleste / PricklyHolly
Amazing! The 3rd one has to be the Hester we are looking for (daughter of George and Caroline) as my dad said she definitely originated from Carlingcott and he keeps asking if I can get an address. It states Carlingcott Road so I will see if that rings any bells with him.
It was shocking to hear about her abandoning a child but as you say it's likely to be a subsequent child to Lily who, from a previous thread, looks as though she grew up with her grandparents George and Caroline in Carlingcott as a 'mother's help'.
Thank you thank you
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A 1962 death in Bath has previously been posted as a potential for Lily. This is the probate that goes with that death:
England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966
Name: Lily Cormack
Probate Date: 12 Jul 1963
Death Date: 27 Nov 1962
Death Place: Bath
Registry: Bristol
Widow, lived 1 Beechen Cliff Road, Bath. Probate to Marie Violet Dickson (wife of James Hume Dickson). Effects £5964 12s 10d.
Sidney's mother was called Marie Violet ........
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Marriages Dec 1958 (>99%)
CORMACK Marie V DICKSON Bath 7c 62
DICKSON James H CORMACK Bath 7c 62
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Clare - was Marie Violet your dad's sister?
EDIT: - Looks like it!
England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: Marie V Cormack
Mother's Maiden Name: Chivers
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1911
Registration District: Bath
Inferred County: Somerset
Volume: 5c
Page: 933
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England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007
about Marie Violet Dickson Name: Marie Violet Dickson
Birth Date: 3 Aug 1911
Date of Registration: Feb 1991
Age at Death: 79
Registration District: Bracknell
Inferred County: Berkshire
Volume: 19
Page: 31
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Beechen Cliff Road (Wrongly listed as Beechen Cliffe Road in the records)
CORMACK, Sidney O'Connell (Aged 59) Son of Daniel and Miriam Cormack (both deceased). Father of Clifford O'Connell Cormack. Husband of Lily Cormack. Victim of the third attack.
The coroner's records wrongly showed Clifford Cormack as Sidney's father rather than his son. My thanks to Sidney Cormack's niece who provided the correct information, and to her daughter who brought the error to my attention.
http://www.thejwarrens.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/bathblitz/blitzroll2ai.htm
Births Dec 1882 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Cormack O'Connell Sidney Royston 3a 416
Marriages Mar 1882 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------------
CORMACK Daiel O'Connell J Bath 5c 906
CORMACK Daniel O'Connell J Bath 5c 906
FISHER Miriam Bath 5c 906
FISHER Mirium Bath 5c 906
1911
CORMACK, Miriam Wife Widow F 58 1853 Newsagents Bassingbourn Cambridgeshire
CORMACK, Fortunato Son M 22 1889 Assist In The Business Bath Somerset
CORMACK, Mabel Daughter F 21 1890 Newspaper Agent Bath Somerset
CORMACK, May Daughter F 19 1892 Assist In The Business Bath Somerset
CORMACK, Sophianos Son M 17 1894 Assist In The Business Bath Somerset
RG number: RG14
Piece: 14723
Reference: RG14PN14723 RG78PN893 RD316 SD4 ED21 SN170
Registration District: Bath
Sub District: Walcot
Enumeration District: 21
Parish: Bath
Address: 30a Monmouth Street Bath
County: Somersetshire
1901
CARMACK, Daniel Head Married M 51 1850 Journeyman Carpenter
India Howiap (British Subject)
CARMACK, Miriam Wife Married F 49 1852
Bassingborne, Hampshire
CARMACK, Syd Son Single M 18 1883 Apprentice Blacksmith
Bassingborne, Hampshire
CARMACK, Horace Son Single M 17 1884 General Labourer
Bath, Somersetshire
CARMACK, Evelyn Daughter Single F 16 1885 Servant (Domestic)
Bath, Somersetshire
CARMACK, Charley Son Single M 14 1887 Apprentice Carpentry
Bath, Somersetshire
CARMACK, Plato Son Single M 12 1889
Bath, Somersetshire
CARMACK, Mabel Daughter Single F 11 1890
Bath, Somersetshire
CARMACK, May Daughter Single F 9 1892
Bath, Somersetshire
CARMACK, Septimus Son Single M 7 1894
Bath, Somersetshire
Piece: 2338
Folio: 135
Page: 3
Registration District: Bath
Civil Parish: Bath
Municipal Borough:
Address: 18, Claverton Street, Bath
County: Somersetshire
1891
CORNICK, Daniel Head Married M 40 1851 Jobbing Carpenter
Howrak, India
CORNICK, Miriam Wife Married F 36 1855
Came, Cambridgeshire
CORNICK, Sydney Son M 8 1883 Scholar
Bath, Somersetshire
CORNICK, Horace Son M 7 1884 Scholar
Bath, Somersetshire
CORNICK, Evelyn Daughter F 6 1885 Scholar
Bath, Somersetshire
CORNICK, Socrates Son M 5 1886 Scholar
Bath, Somersetshire
CORNICK, Pladies Son M 2 1889
Bath, Somersetshire
CORNICK, Mabel Daughter F 1 1890
Bath, Somersetshire
Piece: 1932
Folio: 71
Page: 33
Registration District: Bath
Civil Parish: Bath
Municipal Borough: Bath
Address: 10, Holloway, Bath
County: Somersetshire
1881
CORMACK, Ealiza Widow Head Widow F 60 1821 Widow ((Joiner))
Ireland
CORMACK, Daniel Son Single M 30 1851 French Polisher
India
STONE, Frank Lodger Married M 16 1865 Joiner
Wiltshire
Piece: 2437
Folio: 82
Page: 16
Registration District: Bath
Civil Parish: Bath St Michael
Municipal Borough:
Address: 4, Morgans Court, Bath St Michael
County: Somersetshire
1881
FISHER, Miriam Servant Single F 26 1855 Cook Domestic Servant
Bassingbourne, Cambridgeshire
Piece: 2441
Folio: 63
Page: 2
Registration District: Bath
Civil Parish: Bath Walcot
Municipal Borough:
Address: 8, Circus, Bath Walcot
County: Somersetshire
Deaths Sep 1910 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------------
Cormack Daniel O'C J 59 Bath 5c 284
Deaths Mar 1931 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------
Cormack Miriam 78 Bath 5c 742
Chris :)
Burial
County Somerset
Place Peasedown St John
Church St John
RegisterNumber 161
BurialDate 26 May 1901
Forename George
Relationship
Rel1MaleForename
Rel1FemaleForename
Rel1Surname
Surname CHIVERS
Age 74
Abode Carlingcott Peasedown S John
(is above fitting?, seems to be a Bath connection)
edits (below, probably Miriam)
1861
FISHER, Charles Head Married M 34 1827 Agricultural Labourer
Bassingbourn, Cambridgeshire
FISHER, Rebecca Wife Married F 28 1833
Bassingbourn, Cambridgeshire
FISHER, Mary Ann Daughter F 6 1855 Scholar
Bassingbourn, Cambridgeshire
FISHER, William P Son M 5 1856 Scholar
Bassingbourn, Cambridgeshire
FISHER, Sidney Son M 2 1859
Bassingbourn, Cambridgeshire
Piece: 814
Folio: 49
Page: 8
Registration District: Royston
Civil Parish: Bassingbourn
Municipal Borough:
Address: South End, Bassingbourn
County: Hertfordshire
1871
FISHER, Charles Head M 44 1827 Cambridgeshire
FISHER, Rebeckah Wife F 38 1833 Cambridgeshire
FISHER, Miriam Daughter F 16 1855 Cambridgeshire
FISHER, William P Son M 15 1856 Cambridgeshire
FISHER, Sidney Son M 12 1859 Cambridgeshire
FISHER, Martha Daughter F 4 1867 Cambridgeshire
Piece: 1361
Folio: 63
Page: 9
Registration District: Royston
Civil Parish: Bassingbourn
Municipal Borough:
Address: South End, Bassingbourn
County: Hertfordshire
Births Sep 1854 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------
Fisher Marion Royston 3a 188
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