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Alice was my great great aunt.
She was born in West Ham in 1864, and in West Ham Union Workhouse in 1871.
I cannot find her in the 1881 census no matter where I look, can anyone help me please?
I have all other details, DOB, parents, siblings, both marriage details, children and when she died.

I should say that I don't need this info to help further my family research, I just wonder where the poor child was as both parents were dead, and I think it unlikely that she was in school at that age.

I have tried using the wild card search on A******y without any success. Any help would be much appreciated.

Many thanks,

Sue

Is this just a coincidence - it says b France but right name, albeit going by Eugenie not Alice, right age and area

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Said House, Fairlop Road, Low Leyton, West Ham, Essex, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Ransome Wallis Head Married Male 31 1850 Provision Imprs Ipswich, Suffolk, England
Amelia Wallis Wife Married Female 33 1848 - Newcastle on Tyne, Northumberland, England
Abraham R Wallis Son Single Male 4 1877 - Kilburn, Middlesex, England
Charlie E Wallis Son Single Male 3 1878 - Kilburn, Middlesex, England
James H Wilson Brother In Law Single Male 28 1853 Coml Traveller Newcastle on Tyne, Northumberland, England
Emma S Wilson Cousin Single Female 12 1869 - Newcastle on Tyne, Northumberland, England
Fanny Cake Servant Single Female 18 1863 General Servant Charminster, Dorset, England
Euguine Renneville Servant Single Female 17 1864 Nursemaid France

???????????????

any connection?? Birth year approx 1865,

England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Name: Eugenie Reneville
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 1865
Baptism Date: 1877
Baptism Place: Leytonstone, St. John Baptists Church, Essex, Eng
Father: Augustus Reneville
Mother: Mary
FHL Film Number: 1564140
Reference ID: - 2:2X60BPN

??????????????

England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973

Name: Alice Chapman
[Alice Reneville]
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Widowed
Age: 42
Birth Date: 1864
Marriage Date: 29 Oct 1906
Marriage Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father: Napoleon Reneville
Spouse: Thomas Breeze
FHL Film Number: 93942
Reference ID: p54 no108

from freebmd

Marriages Sep 1884 (>99%)

Chapman Robert Portsea 2b 873
RENEVILLE Alice Eugenie Portsea 2b 873

1911 Census

Name: Alice Breeye
[Alice Breeze]
Age in 1911: 48
Estimated birth year: abt 1863
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: London, United Kingdom
Civil Parish: Everton
Search Photos: Search for 'Everton' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 4 Poplar St Everton Lpool
Marital Status: Married
Registration district: West Derby
Registration District Number: 455
Sub-registration district: South Everton
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Piece: 22519

Thomas Breeye 42 b.ca 1869, Chester, Dock Labourer
Alice Breeye 48
Irene Chapman 22 b. Armagh, ireland
Ruby Chapman 19 b. Armagh, Ireland
Cecil Chapman 17 b. Blackburn, Lancashire, Basket Maker (not working)
William Chapman 12 b.ca 1899, Liverpool
Baden Powell Chapman 12 b.ca 1899, Liverpool
Robert Breeye <<<<<<<< this is the dead child
Alice May Breeye 21 b. ca 1909 <<<<< age is 2

Image says married 4 years, 2 children born, 1 still alive, 1 died


EDITED:- to add places of birth

Robert Breeze has been crossed out on the image, and a note made that Alice may will 2 next birthday ........... NOT 21!

1891 Census

Name: Alice E Chapman
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1866
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Robert Chapman
Gender: Female
Where born: London, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Stockport
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
Town: Stockport
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

Registration district: Stockport
Sub registration district: Stockport First
ED, institution, or vessel: 13

Piece: 2798
Folio: 86
Page Number: 16

Robert Chapman 37 b.ca 1854, Chester, Drill Instructor
Alice E Chapman 25
Edwin M J Chapman 5 b. Ireland
Blanch J Chapman 3 b. Ireland
Irene A J Chapman 1 b. Ireland

UK, Royal Navy Registers of Seamen's Services, 1853-1928

Name: Thomas Breeze
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 29 Nov 1870
Birth Place: Chester
Service number: 159441
First Service Date: 18 Mar 1891
First Ship Served On: Pembroke
Last Service Date: 31 Mar 1903
Last Ship Served On: Sanspareil

1901 Census

Name: Alice Chapman
Age: 38
Estimated birth year: abt 1863
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: London, England
Civil Parish: Everton
Search Photos: Search for 'Everton' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: North Everton
ED, institution, or vessel: 02

Piece: 3473
Folio: 33
Page Number: 6
Household schedule number: 30

Alice Chapman 38 Widow, Laundress
Ellmin Chapman 15 <<< Edwin
Blanch Chapman 13
Ellie Chapman 7 <<< Cecil. Note in last column:- Paralisis
William Chapman 3
Baden Chapman 6/12

so William and Baden Powell are not twins as suggested on the 1911 :-)

England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007

Name: Alice E Breeze
Birth Date: abt 1864
Date of Registration: Mar 1947
Age at Death: 83
Registration district: Liverpool North
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10d
Page: 380

1939 Register

Breeze (Chapman) Household (2 People) 9 Askew Street , Liverpool C.B., Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Occupation
Alice Breeze (Chapman) 20 Jan 1864 Unpaid Domestic Duties Widow
Alice (M) Badley (Breeze) 19 May 1909 Factory Hand


Eugenie is written in red after Alice's name. She had put Chapman and that was then crossed out and Breeze written ...... ie, different from the changes made for marriages.

This looks like Thomas' death .......

England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007

Name: Thomas Breeze
Birth Date: abt 1869
Date of Registration: Dec 1921
Age at Death: 52
Registration district: West Derby
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 555

Thank you for the replies.

Greyghost, I think the info you kindly found relates to the first of Sylvia's postings.

'My' Alice's father was Jean Baptiste, not Napoleon as stated on her marriage certificate. Napoleon was her eldest brother, but both he and her father were dead (Napoleon d1873, JB d 1865)by the time she married. As her mother was also dead, (d1871) I am not surprised that she might have been a bit confused about who her father was.

I had thought that this would be an easy surname to research but I have been proved wrong! It is so often mis transcribed and mis pronounced that I am lucky to have found anything at all! Reneville was my grandmother's maiden name, and to her, it was pronounced Renavilly, so before the 1911 census, who knows what was written on the census returns!

Thanks again,

Sue

Just in case and I don't have FMP open at the moment,( waiting for a phone call) but i did notice in the workhouse records 1871 lat night there were two 'Roneville's ?

If you've seen them all well and good but if not take a look :-)

Alice Eugenie Rannville

England, Essex Parish Registers

Name Alice Eugenie Rannville
Event Type Christening
Event Date 01 May 1864
Event Place Holy Trinity, Canning-Town, Essex, England
Gender Female
Father's Name John Rannville
Mother's Name Alice

this is the death for alice's father in 1865

Renieuville John W Ham 4a 23

Deaths Mar 1871 (>99%)

Renville Alice 42 W. Ham 4a 42

Thank you Rambling Rose and malyon, you can see what I mean about the variations in spelling for the same name!

Rambling Rose, the two Ronevilles in the 1871 census are two of Alice's brothers, Emille, b1859 and Oscar Jerome, b186, my great grandfather. As boys and girls were recorded separately in the Workhouse, I believe I have found Alice in the same one, but with her surname looking like Renevitte, think there is a line on the page rather than the ts being crossed!

Malyon, the ones you kindly posted are all relevant, just a variation on a theme with regard to the spelling!

I have tracked the boys in 1881, Emille is a soldier in Portsmouth, (where incidentally Alice was married in 1884) and Oscar is married and living in Hackney. Where oh where was Alice!

Thanks again for your interest,

Sue

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1256116

(wondering if you saw above find by Choccy on above?, Napoleon)

Chris :)

edits (can also be found in Newspapers)

28 September 1873 - Reynolds's Newspaper - London, London, England

MANSLAUGHTER AT PLAISTOW.-An inquest was held on Tuesday, at the London Hospital, respecting the death ,of Napolen Reneval, aged twenty years, who was alleged to have been stabbed by Tamaunt Moralallis, a sailor, belonging to the steamship ...”

Hi Chris

Thank you, yes, I did see it and was able to find the Old Bailey on Line transcript. His death cert states cause of death violent manslaughter; the poor soul was actually only 17, not 20 as stated in the newspaper.

Yet another spelling of the surname!

Regards,

Sue