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My great-grandfather and family lived at 23 Hare Street, Bethnal Green from at least 1891. He was listed on the Electoral Roll in 1897 and recorded as 'deceased' on my grandad's marriage certificate in 1909. His wife, Betsey is listed as a widow in the 1911 census. There were 3 sons (Herbert, Ronald and Arnold) but only one, Herbert Albert, can be found on the 1901 census (married), the rest of the family don't seem to appear in any record. In 1909 Betsey was living at 6 Ellesmere Road, Bethnal Green, so I wonder if he died around this time and she had to move. Charles was born in 1852 in Northampton and was a shoe rivetter.
Please can anyone help to find when and where he died?

Isn't this the family in the 1901 census (Charles not there but it says Betsy is married)? :-

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
39, Ellesmere Road, Bethnal Green, London, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place

Betsy Stafford Head Married Female 48 1853 Boot Hand (Closer) Northampton, Northamptonshire, England
Ronald Stafford Son Single Male 17 1884 Tailors Trimmer Stepney, Middlesex, England
Arnold Stafford Son Single Male 15 1886 Printer's Clerk Bethnal Green, Middlesex, England

Kath. x

for info


1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Hare Street, Bethnal Green, London, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Charles Stafford Head Married Male 38 1853 Boot Rivetter St Andrews, Northamptonshire, England
Transcription
Betsey Stafford Wife Married Female 38 1853 - All Saints, Northamptonshire, England
Transcription
Herbert Stafford Son - Male 16 1875 Printer St Andrews, Northamptonshire, England
Transcription
Ronald Stafford Son - Male 7 1884 - Stepney, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Arnold Stafford Son - Male 5 1886 - Whitechapel, Middlesex, England

Who is this?? He is shown on 2 Public Family Trees on ancestry


Ronald Rupert Luck Stafford

Birth 26 FEB 1905, Stepney, London


Is he a figment of someone's imagination???

England & Wales marriages 1837-2008 Transcription

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First name(s) CHARLES
Last name STAFFORD
Marriage quarter 2
Marriage year 1874
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ CHARLES STAFFORD married one of these people
ELIZABETH AGNES ASH, BETSEY LUCK
District NORTHAMPTON
District number -
County Northamptonshire
Country England
Volume 3B
Page 143
Record set England & Wales marriages 1837-2008
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Marriages & divorces
Collections from Great Britain

Gosh, quick replies - thank you!

I didn't find the 1901 'Betsey' census although I've been looking for ages. It now narrows down that Charles must have died between 1901 and 1909, which is a great help. I've looked in prisons, and workhouses for him but he seems to have vanished. Any more responses would be really helpful.

Ronald born in 1905, is the son of Ronald born in 1884 in Mile End New Town.

Death of Betsy.

Mistranscribed as Betay Stafford 1920 Bethnal Green V1c P312.
View original and it says Betsy!

1899 Charles Stafford at 36,Anglesea Street as in 1897.

Ronald Stafford married Annie Luck 25/12/1909 doesn't say dad Charles dead it just says he was a Rivetter.

Maryb.

Ronald Rupert Luck Stafford is the Ronald that you have but born 1883 not 1905.

Ronald Rupert Luck Stafford

in the London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Record Image View

Name: Ronald Rupert Luck Stafford
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 24 Jan 1897
Father's name: Charles Stafford
Mother's name: Betsy Stafford
Parish or Poor Law Union: Bethnal Green St James the Great
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers

Born 8 Nov. 1883.

could he have gone to America or could he have married again

1901 (Feb 9th) Herbert Albert Marriage, Charles. occ. Bootmaker...(39, Ellesmere Road) (image on London Marriages, Ancestry)

(1901 Census taken, 31st March)

Chris :)

1911 (Find My Past (Reference)
Betsy Hafford Head Widow Female Boot Gloser 58 1853 Northampton
Address 6 Ellesmere Road Bethnal Green
Parish Bethnal Green
Census reference RG14 PN1395 RG78 PN49 RD17 SD1 ED14 SN46
(says Marriage lasted 38yrs, 3 children born, 3 living)


Edits (his Parents)

County Northamptonshire
Place Northampton
Church name All Saints
Register type Unspecified
Marriage date 04 Nov 1827
Groom forename George
Groom surname STAFFORD
Bride forename Livinia
Bride surname WILLS
Register note Banns

http://www.freereg.org.uk/

Thank you all for your replies. With your help, I have now narrowed down Charles Francis Stafford's death to between 1901 and 1911 but would still appreciate any help in tracking him down.

Yes he could have emigrated or remarried - although I haven't found any evidence that he did. My mother didn't talk about her parents or grandparents, so I don't have any family stories to follow. Fortunately I did meet my granddad, Arnold Sydney Luck Stafford, when he was in his late 80's and have pieced together parts of his life-story.

Just because Betsey is described as a widow in 1911 doesn't necessarily mean that Charles had died.

Sometimes if a marriage broke down in those days the couple just separated and one moved to a different area and they might describe themselves as widowed even though they were not. You should perhaps widen your search to much later than 1911.

Kath. x

It's also within the bounds of possibility that he died or disappeared pre 1901 and Betsey was put down as married - either mistakenly or to save face - it happened!

If he died out of area, his name may not have been known there or he may be one of the numerous Charles Stafford's (no other initial) with an age as close as someone knew it.

My gt. grandad was last seen around February 1860 (his wife was not granted administration of his estate until 1868), but have never found a death to fit.

he married without using he's middle name

I wonder about this death?

London Daily News 29 July 1905

LONDONER'S SUDDEN DEATH AT
SCARBOROUGH.

Mr. Charles Stafford, a London gentleman,
who was on a visit to Scarborough, died there
yesterday with a painful suddenness. Deceased
was 55, and his address is given at Foley-street,
Langham-road, W. He had been in Scarborough
with his wife for the past three weeks for the
benefit of his health. Not feeling well he went
into an hotel, and was partaking of refreshment
when, in reply to a question from his wife, he
said, "I am dying as I go about," and immediately
expired.


Deaths Sep 1905 (>99%)
STAFFORD Charles 55 Scarbro' 9d 235

I haven't been able to trace that address on any census to see who was there around that time.

Dea x

OOOpps - No !!

Forget the above as, although they have his age wrong I think this must be him on 1901:

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
8, Foley Street, St Marylebone, Marylebone, London, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Charles Stafford Head Married Male 57 1844 Tailor Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, England
Transcription
Mary Stafford Wife Married Female 49 1852 Tailoress Folkestone, Kent, England

Mary is a widow in 1911.

Dea x :-(

The mystery deepens! Thank you again for your help, especially the Scarborough newspaper story.
I have considered he remarried or just left the family home and looked past 1909. My mum was always secretive about her parents and grandparents - he might have been the 'black sheep' that caused all of them not to be mentioned! When I discover more I will come back here and let you know.
Many thanks!