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Hi trying to find the link between Albert Edward venour born 1927 and Henry Joseph venour born 1926 I know there is a link but just can't find it , they were both born same place , same street etc I'm wondering if they are cousins if so how do I find this out as the tree owners are refusing to help me :(

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1362277

(adding above from Friday, for reference)

Chris :)

This looks to be the only birth:-

Name: Henry J Venour
Mother's Maiden Surname: Hancock
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1926
Registration district: Stepney
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume Number: 1c
Page Number: 412

But the only marriage I c an see for Venour/Hancock isn't until 1949?

Births for mothers' maiden names:

Births Mar 1926 (>99%)
Venour Henry J Hancock Stepney 1c 412

Births Jun 1927 (>99%)
Venour Albert E Mercer Stepney 1c 33

Albert's parents' marriage, copied from other thread:

Marriages Sep 1924 (>99%)
Mercer Florence E Venour Mile End 1c 635
Venour Albert V Mercer Mile End 1c 635


So probably father in 1911:

Albert Victor Venour
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Albert Victor Venour
[Albert Victor Venone]
Age in 1911: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1902
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Mile End
Civil Parish: Mile End Old Town
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 64 Cephas St, Mile End
Marital Status: Single
Registration district: Mile End Old Town
Registration District Number: 21
Sub-registration district: Mile End Old Town North Eastern
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Piece: 1620
Household Members:
Name Age
Frederick William Venour 45
Clara Venour 42
Edward Leonard Venour 18
Albert Victor Venour 9
James Alfred Venour 5
Louisa Fry Venour 1

This birth may relate to the groom in the 1949 marriage mentioned by Catherine
The 1950 entry is a revised version of the 1916 one.
Interestingly, his mother was also a Hancock.

Births Dec 1916 (>99%)
Venour Frederick H Hancock Stepney 5d see M /50

Births Mar 1950 (>99%)
Venour Frederick H Hancock Stepney 5d 807

And his death:

Frederick Henry Venour
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007

Name: Frederick Henry Venour
Birth Date: 26 Dec 1916
Date of Registration: Oct 1995
Age at Death: 78
Registration district: Hackney
Inferred County: London
Register Number: A33F
District and Subdistrict: 2301A
Entry Number: 4

The 1949 marriage may have been his second. The first may have been in 1946, and the wife from that marriage is on the 2016 ER

Ok thanks guys , this is becoming so difficult to find , I am trying to see if Frederick w venous born 1856 is possibly Henry j venous born 1857 are possibly brothers but cannot find birth certificates to try see if they are either brothers or even cousins this is such a long thing lol :-(

I meant venour, the thing is they were both born in Devonshire rd Mile End Stepney so I really can't see two family's with the same name living in the exact same street not being related somehow no those days the families did live closely together some with two generations living in the same house etc ... I think I'm going to have to go to the national archives in London and try find out some more info

there are several birth with the name Venour / mmn Hancock

Births Dec 1916 (>99%)
Venour Frederick H Hancock Stepney 5d see M /50
Births Dec 1918 (>99%)
Venour George J Hancock Mile End 1c 430
Births Mar 1920 (>99%)
Venour Elsie M Hancock Mile End 1c 896
Births Dec 1924 (>99%)
Venour Winifred K Hancock Mile End 1c 494

Births Mar 1926 (>99%)
Venour Henry J Hancock Stepney 1c 412

Births Dec 1929 (>99%)
Venour Leslie A Hancock Stepney 1c 288
Births Dec 1933 (>99%)
Venour Stanley V Hancock Stepney 1c 210

Births Mar 1950 (>99%)
Venour Frederick H Hancock Stepney 5d 807

(so at least all look to be siblings of Henry Joseph, apart from maybe the last one who would probably be from the 1949 marriage.)

2 of the above (+ 3 unkown) are with Frederick Venour in 1939, wife's name Elsie

15 Sarum Road , Stepney, London, England
t
FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) DOB SEX OCCUPATION MARITAL STATUS SCHEDULE SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER
Stanley V Venour 27 Aug 1933 Male At School Single 83 7
Frederick ? Venour 18 Feb 1891 Male General Lab (Hw Married 83 1
Elsie M Venour 25 Aug 1896 Female Wife Married 83 2
Leslie A Venour 25 Oct 1929 Male At School Single 83 6

3 other people whose records are closed.


A tree on ancestry has this for Frederick Venour born 1891

Birth: 18 Feb 1891 - London, England
Marriage: Sep 1949 - Stepney, Middlesex
Death: 17 Sep 1972 - London, England
Parents: Henry Harry Joseph Venour, Elizabeth Harriet Thompson
Spouse: Elsie May Hancock


................but, then the 1949 marriage is to Elsie May Hancock so looks as though they were living together but didn't marry untill 1949?

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Joseph Street, Mile End Old Town, London, England


Henry Venour Head Married Male 35 1856 Labourer Middlesex, England
Elizabeth Venour Wife Married Female 28 1863 - Mile End, Middlesex, England
Alice Venour Daughter Single Female 2 1889 - Mile End, Middlesex, England
Frederick Venour Son Single Male 0 1891 - Mile End, Middlesex, England

Maybe?


First name(s) HENRY JOSEPH
Last name VENOUR
Birth year 1856
Birth quarter 3
Registration month -
Mother's last name -
District WEST LONDON
County London
Country England
Volume 1C
Page 48
Record set England & Wales births 1837-2006
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Births & baptisms
Collections from Great Britain
© brightsolid online publishing ltd

Hi root gatherer
The Henry j venour you had found is the one I am trying to see if he is related to Frederick w venour born 1857 , both Henry and Frederick were born on the same st in the same area so I'm trying to see if they are either brothers , cousins ? This is so very difficult . Again in my earlier post that would be way to bigger coincidence for them not to be related there must be a link , there are three closed records so does that mean that one of the three closed records is the missing link ? I'm struggling to resolve this but you guys are helping a lot thank you so much :)

Just to clarify one point -

The 1950 birth registration listed in Catherine's last post is not a child of the 1949 marriage.

As I said previously, it's a re-registration (or whatever the term is) of the 1916 birth of Frederick H Venour.

I think he may be the groom in the 1949 marriage.

This would be the marriage for Henry Joseph and Elizabeth Thompson

Name: Henry Joseph Venour
Estimated birth year: abt 1857
Age: 32
Occupation:- Carman
Spouse: Elizabeth Harriet Thompson
Spouse Age: 26
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 20 Jan 1889
Parish: St James the Great, Bethnal Green
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Henry Venour
Occupation:- Bookbinder
Spouse Father: Frederick Thompson
Register Type: Parish Register
Address for both:- Bethnal Green

In your other thread you asked about Albert Edward Venour b.1927

His father turned out to be Albert Victor Venour b.1902

His father Frederick William Venour b.1866 who married Clara Marchant:-

Their marriage:-

Name: Frederick William Venour
Occupation:- Book Binder
Spouse: Clara Marchant
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 4 Jul 1892
Parish: St Peter, Mile End Old Town
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Henry Venour
Occupation:- Deceased
Spouse Father: William Marchant
Register Type: Parish Register
Address:- 62 Devonshire Street

The family in 1881:-

Name: Henry Venoor
Age: 49
Estimated birth year: abt 1832
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Ann Venoor
Gender: Male
Where born: London,City of, London, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Mile End Old Town
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 29 Alma Rd
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Book Binder
Registration district: Mile End Old Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 36
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 485
Folio: 175
Page Number: 49
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Venoor 49
Ann Venoor 44
xxxx Henry Venoor 24 (1857 born: London,City of, London, Middlesex,)
xxxx Fredk. Venoor 16 (1865 born: Shoreditch, Middlesex
Alice Venoor 11
Emily Venoor 8


So from information above you can see that Henry Joseph Venour b.1857 and Frederick William Venour b. 1866 have the same father and so were brothers.

yay thank you so much that is fantastic news ! the missing link has been found !

Sorry, I thought I'd posted the marriage of Henry and Elizabeth, but it's not showing so not sure what happened there.

Never mind here it is, just as proof that father of Henry Joseph was Henry a Book Binder:-

Name: Henry Joseph Venour
Estimated birth year: abt 1857
Age: 32
Occupation:-Carman
Spouse: Elizabeth Harriet Thompson
Spouse Age: 26
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 20 Jan 1889
Parish: St James the Great, Bethnal Green
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Henry Venour
Occupation:- Book Binder
Spouse Father: Frederick Thompson
Register Type: Parish Register
Address for both:- Bethnal Green


There are several records on ancestry for Henry b.1857 going into and discharge records for the Workhouse.

This one:-

Name: Henry Venour
Birth Date: 1857
Admission Age: 51
Admission Date: 4 May 1908
Record Type: Admission
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Parish or Poor Law Union: Poplar
Place: London, England
Title: Admission and Discharge Register, 1908

............shows he was admitted with
Elizabeth Venour b.1863
Lilian b.1896
Annie b.1901
Alice b.1888
Frederick aged 5mths (looks to be the son of Alice)


Poor baby Frederick seems to have lived the first year of his life in the Workhouse:-
Name: Frederick Venour
Birth Date: 1908
Discharge Date: 4 Mar 1909
Record Type: Discharge
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Parish or Poor Law Union: Poplar
Title: Admission and Discharge Register, 1908-1909

??that's so sad to think that all happened in those days so pleased things have moved on from all of that , I know we have issues going on still but to be in a work house I could never imagine my babies somewhere like that so sad , I will let my neighbour my new found third cousin know as Henry is her great great great grandad and my great great great uncle so I think she would be interested in knowing that . Thankyou so much for your help Catherine !

Could you answer one last question ?
How far back does the archives on here go ?