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Colette .............

I meant that it did say Esther on the census image, it was not written as, or mistranscribed from, Edith

Thanks everyone all sorted now...

Colette

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=66451.0

(below looks to relate here, Gabriel)

Chris :)

Cheers xx

Sorry, not coming up in Liverpool marriages. You might have to get the marriage cert.

I was thinking about the Watson and there was a Gabriel Watson living a few streets away he was aged 50 and married but has that ever stopped anyone haha..the daughter was called Edith the man I am helping has her birth cert..

I wonder what father is written on Gabriels marriage 1887 could you check on Ancestry Liverpool marriages

Thanks Colette

Gabriel doesn't have the surname Watson ........ it has been given to him as a second forename, his surname is Tyson just like his mother.

Births Mar 1865 (>99%)
TYSON Gabriel Watson Liverpool 8b 52

The name Watson MAY indicate the name of the father .........

....... but note that the first baby was given Mathews as his second forename, which commemorates his mother's maiden name.

The 1861 Census looks a bit messy because there are actually 3 families living at the same address

from ancestry ...........

1861 Census

Name: Eliza Tyson
[Eliza Mathews]
Age: 27
Estimated birth year: 1834
Relation: Daughter
Mother's name: Mary Mathews
Gender: Female
Where born: Liverpool
Civil Parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
Town: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: St Martin
ED, institution, or vessel: 8

Household schedule number: 197
Piece: 2650
Folio: 185

Mary Mathews 60 b.ca 1801, Liverpool, Widow
Eliza Tyson 27 Married
Estha Tyson 11/12 b.ca 1860, Liverpool

Address:- 14 McKee Street


I've triple checked, and it does say Mar on the ancestry census image.

and the child is called Esther

Baptisms of eldest child of Edward and Eliza, and possibly/probably why they got married as Minors in January 1852???

England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Name: John Mathews Tyson
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 30 May 1852
Baptism Place: All Saints, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father: Edward Tyson
Mother: Eliza Tyson
FHL Film Number: 1655765
Reference ID: item 3 p 50


He didn't live long :-(

Births Jun 1852 (>99%)
Tyson John Matthews Liverpool 8b 22

Deaths Jun 1853 (>99%)
Tyson John Mathew Liverpool 8b 20


Perhaps the marriage did not survive past the birth of this son?

There are 2 possible deaths in the Liverpool area for edward Tyson

Deaths Mar 1856 (>99%)
Tyson Edward Liverpool 8b 167

Deaths Dec 1864 (>99%)
TYSON Edward Liverpool 8b 267


The following was a baby born in 1859 (just to rule out this death)................

Deaths Dec 1859 (>99%)
Tyson Edward W Derby 8b 260

I think you will find that they married either in the Registry Office, or in a Registrar Attended wedding not held in a CofE church

I saw her in the 1861 census its a bit messy but there was a woman above her I wasn't sure which house she belonged too I thought her name was Mather but its Matthews Mary..her mother so you are correct...

Thank you Colette

If the 1871 posted above is correct, perhaps you need to purchase the Shacklady/Tyson MC to check that her father was John Matthews?

Assuming the records posted above are correct, its strange that Edward Tyson wasn't named on Edith's BC. A child of a married or widowed woman is assumed to be her husband's child even if it was physically impossible. The alternative is when the biological father is present or registers the birth and accepts paternity.

Thank you we didn't know if she had been married to a Tyson as her daughter Edith has no father on her birth cert 1860..and her son Gabriel has the surname Watson born 1865..It's looking like her first husband Deserted her, or he did in fact die that may or may not be his death she says she is a widow in 1861..maybe he died prior to Edith's birth..there is a huge gap from 52 to 1860 I need to look in to this.

Thank you again Colette

Assuming this is the census you tracked back from, Eliza could will have been a widow when she married

Name: Henry Shacklady
Age: 43
Estimated birth year: abt 1828
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Eliza Shacklady
Gender: Male
Where born: Bickerstaffe, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: St Martin
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Household schedule number: 132
Piece: 3755
Folio: 154
Page Number: 25
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Shacklady 43
Eliza Shacklady 37
Edith Tyson 10
Gabriel Tyson 6

Who were you focussing on? Eliza, Henry or the father of Eliza's Tyson children?

They only have the gro reference on there, not the PR

It keeps giving hints to

Eliza Edwards Matthews
Age: Minor
Marriage Date: 26 Jan 1852
Parish: Bevington, St Alban
Spouse's Name: Edward Tyson (Butcher)
Father's name: John Matthews (Whitesmith)
Spouse Father's Name: John Tyson (Tailor)
Reference Number: 283 ALB/3/1

Edward's death?
Edward Tyson
Registration Year: 1864
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: Liverpool
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 267

Also this death
Eliza Edwards Shacklady
Estimated birth year: abt 1834
Registration Year: 1876
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 42
Registration district: West Derby
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 370

Could either be relevant?

Hi all need an Ancestry marriage look-up Liverpool Henry Shacklady to Eliza Tyson 1871..

Thank you Col xx