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Hi to all,
I have searched here for ages but cannot find the answer ...... My grandfather was Stanley Frank Orris born 1897 in Horsleydown which is now Bermondsey, Sth London.
His mother is Eliza Davies born 1853, possibly in Wales ? ( she is also on some documents as Lizzie & Elizabeth so it's possible that Elizabeth is her real name but she liked to shorten it).
Eliza's father is said to be Ebenezer Davies ( Possibly born 1917 ) married to Mary Davies. Eliza married Frederick Henry Orris in 1880 in Bermondsey.
I cannot find any details for Ebenezer Davies though, did he come to London from Wales, did Eliza do the same, did they just meet in London?
If any of you have any ideas as to what to try next I would be very grateful.
Many thanks ...... G

Welcome to the boards Gary. For our information -

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
9, Parish Street, Horsleydown, St Olave Southwark, London, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
E Orris Head Widow Female 42 1859 Charwoman Wales
Ethel Orris Daughter Single Female 17 1884 Servant Cook London, England
Fredreck Orris Son Single Male 16 1885 Tea Blender London, England
Florence Orris Daughter - Female 8 1893 - London, England
Stanley Orris Son - Male 3 1898 - London, England

-----------------------------------
1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Parish Street, Horsleydown, St Olave Southwark, London, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Frederick Orris Head Married Male 39 1852 General Labourer Norwich, Norfolk, England
Eliza Orris Wife Married Female 34 1857 - Wales
Fred Orris Son Single Male 6 1885 Scholar Middlesex, England
Ethel Orris Daughter Single Female 7 1884 Scholar Middlesex, England
Mary Davies Mother In Law Married Female 74 1817 - Wales
Ebenezer Jone Nephew Single Male 18 1873 Grocers Assistant Middlesex, England
Ann Mohoney Lodger Widow Female 54 1837 - Wales
William Mohoney Son Single Male 21 1870 General Labourer Middlesex, England
John Mohoney Son Single Male 18 1873 General Labourer Middlesex, England

Unfortunately no clue as to where in Wales Eliza or Mary hail from

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Dec 1880 (>99%)
Bond Eliza St. Saviour 1d 197
Davies Eliza St. Saviour 1d 197 <<<<<<<<<<<
Fido Charles St. Saviour 1d 197
ORRIS Frederick Henry St. Saviour 1d 197 <<<<<<<<<<<

---------------------
Frederick Henry Orris
in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: Frederick Henry Orris
Spouse: Eliza Davies
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 11 Dec 1880
Parish: St Saviour, Southwark
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: Frederick Henry Orris
Spouse Father: Ebenezer Davies
Register Type: Parish Register

Image is on ancestry. Both of full age. Frederick is a Mariner. Both living in the St Saviour area when married. Married by Licence
Frederick's Father also Frederick Henry a Surgeon (deceased)
Eliza's Father Ebenezer a Stoker (deceased)
Witnesses - Sarah Elizabeth Hall and ? Charles ??

Wow that was fast!
Thanks greyghost you've given me a lot to digest there.
It's the right family .... Stanley was my grandfather & his brother Frederick John was killed in Ypres during WW1. My father was named Frederick John to commemorate him.
Ebenezer and Mary are being stubborn though.
Regards ..... G

One tree on Ancestry has Eliza born LLanrhystud in Wales citing the 1901 and 1911 census - but they actually only say Wales. No parents named.
(Llanrhystud is in Cardiganshire)

The other tree has her as Elizabeth born in Norfolk. Living in Eglwysilan, Caerphilly, Glamorganshire in 1861. Parents Ebenezer Davies 1817 -1880 a Sculpter and Mary Evans 1817 - 1861 (but she's on the 1891 census above !)

Sorry, got to leave it there, bed calls.

????

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Margaret Street, Saint Clement Within, Norwich, Norfolk, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Frederick Henry Orris Head Married Male 24 1827 Member Of The Royal College Of Surgeons Hindringham, Norfolk, England
Transcription
Elizabeth Orris Wife Married Female 25 1826 - Norwich, Norfolk, England
Transcription
Emily Orris Daughter - Female 2 1849 At Home Norwich, Norfolk, England
Transcription
Anna Maria Orris Daughter - Female 0 1851 At Home Norwich, Norfolk, England
Transcription
Mary Ann Orris Servant Unmarried Female 19 1832 House Servant Lamas, Norfolk, England

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Magdalen Street, St Clement, Norwich, Norfolk, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Frederick H Orris Head Married Male 35 1826 Surgeon General Practitioner Hindringham, Norfolk, England
Transcription
Elizabeth S Orris Wife Married Female 35 1826 - Norwich, Norfolk, England
Transcription
Emily Orris Daughter Unmarried Female 10 1851 Scholar Norwich, Norfolk, England
Transcription
Frederick Orris Son Unmarried Male 12 1849 Scholar Norwich, Norfolk, England
Transcription
Horrace R Orris Daughter - Female 8 1853 Scholar Norwich, Norfolk, England
Transcription
Elizabeth J Orris Daughter - Female 6 1855 Scholar Norwich, Norfolk, England
Transcription
Susan Leish Servant Unmarried Female 20 1841 General Servant Long Stratton, Norfolk, England

Thanks safc,
I'll add that lot to be sorted through, although I think I've got most of that info.
The Norfolk info is something that I've probably been guilty of ignoring to a certain extent but I think I'll have to review my thoughts on that.
Regards ....... G

Baptism
County Norfolk
Place Norwich
Church name St Clement
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number 710
Baptism date 7 Oct 1860
Person forename Frederick Henry
Person sex M
Person abode St Clements
Father forename Frederick Henry
Father surname ORRIS
Father occupation Surgeon
Mother forename Elizabeth Sinclair
Mother surname HOWELL


Baptism
County Norfolk
Place Hindringham
Church name St Martin
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number 309
Baptism date 3 Jan 1826
Person forename Frederic Henry
Person sex M
Person abode Hindringham
Father forename Robert
Father surname ORRIS
Father occupation Gentleman
Mother forename Mary Ann

http://www.freereg.org.uk/

(from above link, if anything else there)

Chris :)

1911 Census?

Mrs E. Orris (after the E. llen has been written in making it Ellen) Head 54 Widow Charwoman, Offices. Wales N K.
Ethel Minnie Orris Dau 27 Single Kitchen Hand, Restaurant. Horsleydown, Bermondsey
Frederick John Orris Son 25 Single Passenger Liftman, Business Offices. Horsleydown Bermondsey
Florence Lizzie Orris Dau 18 Single Kitchen Hand Out of Employment, Restaurant. Horsleydown Bermondsey
Stanley Frank Orris Son 13 Single At School Horsleydown Bermondsey
Charles Albert Payne Visitor 24 Single Milk Roundsman. Peckham, London

Census states E. Orris was married 31 years. 5 children born to marriage, 4 living, 1 dead. These details have been crossed through.

Address 8 Cunard Street, Albany Road, Camberwell

There is a death for Elizabeth Orris in Camberwell 1 d 991 in Mar Qtr 1939 aged 82 years
Which would make a birth of 1856/57.

I note from the Marriage it states that Elizabeth's Father is Ebenezer Davies occupation Stoker.

There is this 1861 Census entry that could be of interest?

Mary Davies Wife Married 44 Stoker's Wife
Ann Davies Dau Single 21 House Servant
Rachel Davies Dau Single 16 House Servant
Mary Davies Dau 11
Ebenezer Son 9
>>>>Elizabeth Dau 4 b Llanrydstyd, Cardiganshire
David Son 3
John Son 1

Living in Ffrwdfach, Llanrydstyd Haminiog, Aberystwyth, Cardiganshire

This appears to be the Mother-in-law that appears in the 1891 census with Eliza and Frederick: Note that Frederick and Elza's daughter (Ethel Minnie) has the address 2 Horselydown Place on her Baptism record:

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Horselydown Place, St John, St Olave Southwark, London, England

Mary Davies Head Widow Female 51 1820 - Cardiganshire, Wales
David Davies Son - Male 14 1857 - Cardiganshire, Wales
John Davies Son - Male 11 1860 - Cardiganshire, Wales
-------------------------------------------------

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
2, Horselydown Place, Horsleydown, St Olave Southwark, London, England

Mary Davies Head Widow Female 64 1817 - Wales
David Davies Son Single Male 23 1858 Blacksmith Wales
-----------------------------------------------

Note that David & John fit with the 1861 census posted by Londonbelle above.

So it appears that if Ebenezer was Mary's husband, that he died between 1861 & 1871

Marriage for Eliza's brother, David:

Name David Davies (full age)
Spouse Annie Hansford (full age)
Record Type Marriage
Event Date 10 Dec 1883
Parish St Saviour, Southwark
Borough Southwark
Father Name Ebenezer Davies (Stoker)
Spouse Father James Hansford
Register Type Parish Register

Wondering if this is Mary in 1851- note son John- wonder if this John died? Ann, Rachel & Mary match 1861 census.

1851
Name: Mary Davies
Age: 56 (36 on image)
Estimated birth year: abt 1795
Relation: Head
Where born: Llangeitho
Civil Parish or Township: Haminiog
County/Island: Cardiganshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: Aberystwyth
Sub-registration district: Llanrhystyd
ED, institution, or vessel: 1a
Piece: 2485 Folio: 11 Page Number: 14
Household schedule number: 59
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Davies 56 (36 on image) married Labourer's wife
Anne Davies 11
John Davies 9
Evan Davies 8
Rachel Davies 6
Margaret Davies 4
Mary Davies 1
---------------------------------------

And Mary in 1841 with Ebenezer:

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Pigin, Llanrhystyd, Aberystwyth, Cardiganshire, Wales

John Davies Male 75 1766 Cardiganshire, Wales
Ebenezar Davies Male 20 1821 Cardiganshire, Wales
Mary Davies Female 20 1821 Cardiganshire, Wales
John Davies Male 0 1841 Cardiganshire, Wales
Eliza Female 20 1821 Cardiganshire, Wales

?? He first went to sea in 1838.


Britain, merchant seamen, 1835-1857 Transcription

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First name(s) Ebenezer
Last name Davies
Birth year 1822
Birth date ? Dec 1822
Birth place Cardigan
Birth county/country Cardiganshire
Archive The National Archives
Series BT113
Piece number 91
Date range 1845-1854
Record set Britain, merchant seamen, 1835-1857


Might this be his marriage??


England & Wales marriages 1837-2008 Transcription

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First name(s) EBENEZER
Last name DAVIES
Marriage quarter 1
Marriage year 1840
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ EBENEZER DAVIES married one of these people
MARY MORGANS, ELIZABETH JONES, ASARIAH JONES
District ABERYSTWYTH
District number -
County Cardiganshire
Country Wales
Volume 27
Page 26

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1282408

(somebody else relating to Orris, thought it was familiar!)

Chris :)

Many thanks for all your replies, much appreciated.
I'm still working my way through everything you've posted here but hopefully will learn a it more from it all.
It's a little daunting trying to work out some of the records online, especially when some of the people filling out the forms had such bad hand writing! I found a listing for Eliza Arris which turned out to be Eliza Orris when I looked carefully. I also have found a listing for Northern Ireland which was actually Horsleydown, Bermondsey, London.
And thanks Chris Ho for your link...... The author it links to is someone I have seen online elsewhere with similar questions so may well be good.
Anyway, happy christmas to you all, will keep thrashing this out.
Regards ....... G

According to the 1851 census Ebenezer and Mary have a child Ann age 11, (I'm not sure where she is in 1841) so I'm not sure about that 1840 marriage as there is also this possible marriage.

First name(s) EBENEZER
Last name DAVIES
Marriage quarter 4
Marriage year 1839
MarriageFinder™ EBENEZER DAVIES married one of these people
MARY EVANS, ELEANOR JONES
District ABERAYRON
District number -
County Cardiganshire
Country Wales

That 1851 with places of birth.


1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Ffrood Fach, Aberystwyth, Cardiganshire, Wales

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Mary Davies Head Married Female 34 1817 Labourer Wife Llangeitho, Cardiganshire, Wales
Transcription
Anne Davies Daughter Llanbadarnfost Female 11 1840 - -
Transcription
John Davies Son - Male 9 1842 Scholar - Llanrthystid
Transcription
Evan Davies Son - Male 8 1843 - -
Transcription
Rachel Davies Daughter - Female 6 1845 - Llanrthystid -
Transcription
Margaret Davies Daughter - Female 4 1847 - Llanrthystid-
Transcription
Mary Davies Daughter - Female 1 1850 - Llanrthystid-


and just a possible for Anne in 1861.



1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
18, Portland Street, Aberystwyth, Cardiganshire, Wales

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Mary Richards Head Married Female 39 1822 Tailors Wife Taliesin, Cardiganshire, Wales
Transcription
Elizabeth Richards Daughter - Female 8 1853 - Cardiganshire, Wales
Transcription
Mary Richards Daughter - Female 6 1855 - Cardiganshire, Wales
Transcription
Jane Richards Daughter - Female 4 1857 - Cardiganshire, Wales
Transcription
Tirsah Richards Daughter - Female 1 1860 - Cardiganshire, Wales
Transcription
David John Richards Son - Male 0 1861 - Cardiganshire, Wales
Transcription
>>Anne Davies Servant Unmarried Female 21 1840 House Servant Llanbadarn Fawr, Cardiganshire, Wales

Thanks alviegal.
I'm looking at those myself and they do seem difficult to pin down.
Regards ..... G.