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My friend knows very little unfortunately being brought up in care - as I was. I will go for the certs asap to clear things up. Thanks

Think that's a good idea Joonie, :-)

we hopscotched

I think I will just go to sleep and wait to see whether Mark & Friend decide we should be let in on what he/they know.

or possibly Francis was widowed? age is slightly off ...

Deaths Dec 1938
Evans Enid 33 St.Asaph 11b 216


Births Jun 1910
TONKS Gwendoline May Wellington Sh 6a 717

Name: Gwendoline May Evans ?
Birth Date: 9 Mar 1910
Date of Registration: Jun 1994
Age at Death: 84
Registration district: Wrekin
Inferred County: Shropshire
Register Number: 15A
District and Subdistrict: 7161A
Entry Number: 169


it does look like he is probably not the Francis R Evans we are looking for

OR

The Francis R Evans who married Gwendolyn might well be this one though? oddly enough I used to live near Ruthin and now I live near Wellington lol)

Births Sep 1915 (>99%)
Evans Francis R McLachlan Atcham 6a 984

It really would be helpful to know everything the friend knows though :-)

ooooh, bigamy ... :-D

That Gwendolyn shows as married, with some unfortunate incomprehensible squiggle beside the 'M'

Harriet is widowed ... if that is the right Frank in 1911, his mother was Annie


one wonders how much of what we know Mark's friend knows, and why we are not getting any responses or answers

But could be Gwendolyn ( nee Tonks)

Evans Household (2 People)
40 Ivy Cottage Sinclair Gardens , Wellington R.D., Shropshire, England

Gwendolyn M Evans 09 Mar 1910 Unpaid Domestic Du
Harriet Evans 14 Jul 1869 Unpaid Domestic Dut

Yes I was looking at him, but might be this marriage? which doesn't preclude it being the same Francis R as married 1936... if he and Enid split up... again brings us back to needing a cert

Marriages Jun 1938 (>99%)
Evans Francis R Gwendolyn M Tonks Wellington Sal 6a 2150

how about ...

Births Dec 1907
EVANS Francis R Wellington, Sh. 6a 660


1911

Name: Frank Evans
Age in 1911: 3
Estimated birth year: abt 1908
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Wellington, Salop, England
Civil Parish: Wellington Urban
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England
Street address: No 11 New Square, Glebe St, Wellington, Salop
Registration district: Wellington
John Evans 45
Annie Evans 40
Dora Evans 12
Violet Evans 11
Winne Evans 7
David Evans 5
Frank Evans 3
Lewis Evans 10/12

if that's him it suggests we should find him and Enid together in 1939

no war death for F R Evans to match

There is this, which is just a guess ( as I can't find them in 1939) .. It does have a note about "age limit" but I can't make out whether it applies to Francis?


First name(s) Francis Reginald
Last name Evans
Age -
Birth year -
Birth place -
Attestation year 1940
Service number 1747510
Former service number -
Record set Royal Artillery attestations 1883-1942
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Subcategory Regimental & service records
Collections from Great Britain

ah okay, I thought maybe it was the pairings you were questioning ... yes, that confirms the middle name :-)

Yep Joonie, but the GRO gives just middle initial?

but don't we know this from the GRO index Rose? - not possible but definite spouses?

Marriages Mar 1936
Evans Francis R Jones Ruthin 11b 468
Jones Enid Evans Ruthin 11b 468


Oh right I get it -- there were two Jones brides on the page you quoted!

Except I think we have to go by the page in the GRO index with only one Jones bride ...

Marriages Mar 1936
Evans Francis R Jones Ruthin 11b 468
Evans Gwyneth M Hughes Ruthin 11b 468
Hughes Joseph T Evans Ruthin 11b 468
Jones Enid Evans Ruthin 11b 468

Surname Forename Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
JONES Enid Ruthin, Civil Marriage Denbighshire South (Ruthin) RUTHIN/24/7



Possible spouses:

Surname Forename Reference
EVANS Francis Reginald RUTHIN/24/7
JONES Margaret Jane RUTHIN/24/7
WILLIAMS Robert Henry RUTHIN/24/7

from
http://www.northwalesbmd.org.uk/index.php

1911 ?

Name: Enid Jones
Age in 1911: 4
Estimated birth year: abt 1907
place of birth not transcribed: Llanrhaidr
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
County/Island: Denbighshire
Country: Wales
Street address: Hendy Prion Denbigh
>> Registration district: Ruthin
Sub-registration district: Llanrhaidr
John Jones 40
Elizabeth Jones 46
Arthyr Jones 17
Gwladys Jones 11
Hywel Jones 9
Goronwy Jones 7
Enid Jones 4


Births Mar 1907 ?
Jones Enid Ruthin 11b 279


since your friend asks only about Francis, could we assume they know about Enid?

When born, when and where died ......... ?

If so, surely it is obvious that this is information that needs to be provided, e.g. for searching the 1939 register, to find her with Francis and thus find further info about him, or not with him and thus know that he must be searched for otherwise.

for info, there is no Francis Evans birth to match the 14 November 1907 birthdate on the death certificate

It's possible, as has often been the case, that the person who registered the death got the birthdate right but the year of birth wrong, e.g., however, there does not seem to be any Francis Reginald Evans birth in the vicinity. (Francis Reginald E Evans 1908 Plymouth is accounted for in deaths.)

There is also no matching record to be found in the 1939 register, or in the 1911 census.

Since Mark's 'friend' is apparently descended from this couple, one supposes that the friend knows who their children were ... and most likely when they died, whether they ever separated, whether either remarried, etc., since 1936 is not a million generations ago and unless the family had completely fractured, someone now living knew one or both of them during their lives. If the family did completely fracture, that is obviously something we need to know too ...

Mark, maybe you could say what research YOU have done to try to find this person?

In any event, you would seem to need to tell your friend that without the marriage certificate to show age and father's name, there is not likely much to be done. Surely your friend can afford that, if he or she wants to know more.

unable to pinpoint any children as there were 102 children born in Ruthin in the years 1936 to 1956 with a mother Jones

Just to definitely rule out the Enid Evans (Williams) found by RR;

Enid Williams
in the 1911 Wales Census
Name: Enid Williams
Age in 1911: 5
Estimated birth year: abt 1906
Relation to Head: Merch (Daughter)
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Derewen, Denbighshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Derwen
County/Island: Denbighshire
Country: Wales
Street address: Arth Wig Grfal Corwen
Registration district: Ruthin
Registration District Number: 622
Sub-registration district: Llanelidan
ED, institution, or vessel: 05
Household schedule number: 20
Piece: 34096
Household Members:
Name Age
Hugh Williams 40
Margaret Williams 37
Ellen Williams 14
Elizabeth Williams 6
Enid Williams 5
Hugh Jones Williams 2

Although, I can't see her marriage to an Evans, at least not in Denbighshire .

Mark, please ask your friend for as much info about these people as possible.

The names are too common for us to be able to pinpoint them with any accuracy after their marriage without more to go on.
Any extra detail might help.

Exact DOBs? Names of any other relatives?

Otherwise, as has been said before, you will need the marriage cert, for ages, fathers' names, etc.